Social Confoes

Hosted ByDiego Ameerali & Jeanluc van Charante

Social Confoes 014 – Wiren, Suriname and the Oscars w/ Ivan Tai-Apin

Ivan Tai-Apin joins Diego and Jean-luc on episode 14 of #SocialConfoes to talk about events, acting and directing in Suriname. We talk about his journey and road to having his movie, Wiren, become the first-ever Surinamese submission to the Academy Awards. Ivan is a Surinamese actor, director, screenplay writer and producer. He is mostly known for his out of the box theater shows & plays. In 2016 he started a camera acting school in Suriname and is the managing director of It Goes Productions & Casting.

Did you know he has his very own Wikipedia page? Check it out for his full biography in film and theater.

You can also connect with Ivan:

Watch Wiren on Amazon Prime. You can watch it on Netflix if you are in the Benelux region.

Episode Overview

  • 0:00 – Introduction with Owru Yari stories
  • 5:36 – How was the film space in the Netherlands compared to Suriname 10 years ago?
  • 9:54 – Acting like in animal before filming or performing on stage.
  • 13:31 – What brought you back to Suriname?
  • 16:53 – What were the challenges you had to overcome?
  • 29:28 – Views on the maturing industry with the limited local scale we have in Suriname
  • 37:51 – How the submission to the Oscars went
  • 47:33 – Production costs and box office results of Wiren
  • 52:55 – What’s the ROI for companies for investing in a movie production?
  • 1:03:08 – How do you put yourself out there to network?
  • 1:10:20 – Closing off with recommendations for the film industry

Video Version of the Episode

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Full Transcript

Diego: [00:00:00] Good evening. Good morning. Good afternoon from wherever you’re tuning in tonight on Social Confoes episode 14, we’re back again. I’m here with my co-host Jean-luc, and we’re ready to have another amazing conversation with a very talented individual and I’ll leave the honors to you JL to introduce our guest.

Jean-luc: [00:00:44] it’s a fairy very creative individual. So funny backstory. I met our guest Oh, wow. It’s already, almost 10 years ago. I don’t know exactly how many years ago it was, but I actually, our first conversation was a very random conversation at t Vat. He was sitting on the terrasse.

I was having a drink and I just walked up to him because he didn’t know me at the time. At least I don’t think he knew me at the time, but he was already a very familiar face because for those people that don’t know our guests today was the face of Waterkant, when, it came to Owru Yari productions, like letting people in the Netherlands know what’s going on in December, in Suriname.

And he would make these really, really cool videos and interview people. And I remember he interviewed Doutzen Kroes, a super model, Victoria, secret supermodel, when she was in Suriname celebrating Owru Yari she and he interviewed there and every year he would make these awesome videos about Owru Yari.

And I was really intrigued by it. Of course, back then I was already involved in Surifesta. So I just wanted to know who this guy was. And at the time he also had, when he made those videos, he had this big fro is laughing right now, but he had this big fro. So it was really a fun conversation. And from the conversation, one thing came to another, we, we stayed in touch.

We actually became friends actually close friends, close enough that he was actually at my bachelor party for my wedding. And we even became best business partners together. We started a venture together. We did an award show together, and then we stayed in touch. We kind of were in a similar industry but he was way more into into acting and, and camera.

And I was a little bit more into social media. And then he started this very, very big project. He started a full-on movie and we’ll talk a lot about it today. But I’m gonna keep the suspense for the movie for a little while. I’m just going to introduce today’s guest. And that’s none other than the one, the only Ivan Tai-Apin.

Welcome Ivan. How are you doing.

Ivan: [00:03:01] Oh, you. Thank you. Thank you guys for having me in Diego and Jean-luc and nice introduction. Yes. I totally forgot about the, some parts how we met, but especially the bachelor party. That was a great bachelor party.

Jean-luc: [00:03:20] Well, we’re keeping it Social, but we’re not gonna spill it at night.

Arrive safely at home, but yeah, it was, it was a fun, fun story to share that you were also part of that. Of course.

Diego: [00:03:34] Yeah. Welcome Ivan and glad to have you here. And speaking of Owru Yari. From that interruption look for those who listening, not in Suriname, Owru Yari is new year’s celebration here in Suriname, and it’s very, very popular.

So Ivan, can you tell us a bit, especially for the international listeners and viewers, what’s so special about Owru Yari and Suriname and what got you to, you know, interviewing all these people?

Ivan: [00:04:00] Yeah. It was actually a project of Waterkant and water. Can I ask me and, you know, data that he was a camera man to come with a concept and we both thought let’s do some interviews because nobody did that at that time.

So we came to Suriname, we stayed at Hotel Torarica especially in the heart of Suriname where all the different people come are people from abroad come. So we did a lot of interviews. We even saw Doutzen Kroes here and nobody know it was also cruise, but we, we knew it and we got an interview and she said, yes, we’re going to do an interview.

So that was, I think the climax of that period, but  means a lot for Surinamese people. It’s like the Carnival of the Caribbean, but still with a twist, because a lot of firecrackers, we showed a lot of firecrackers in the streets and it’s just partying, partying, but it’s actually closing the year.

So we are partying for closing the year so that the next year could be celebrated. You can say. And that’s the whole week since I think that the 2nd of December, we started to party till the 31st in the night. So that’s a little bit about Owru Yari.

Diego: [00:05:17] Yeah. I, I I’ve seen it. I’ve been part of it as well.

And the amount of people that get packed in such a small location, it’s, it’s ridiculous. And I’ve seen the top view from Krasnapolsky got a photo and, you know, you think, how did these people even fit? And they just,

Jean-luc: [00:05:36] that is not COVID friendly, so, Oh, we’re going to do this year as well, but for, for, for those of you, so, so how did, because of course you did this product for, for Waterkant, but you were at the time already in the entertainment industry, in the Netherlands.

So maybe for those who don’t know you from that time period, because we’re talking at least 10 years ago what, what was the scene like in the Netherlands compared to when you came to visit Suriname.

Ivan: [00:06:06] Yeah, I started entertainment I think in 1999. I went to Holland in 1998, but in 1999, I thought like, I really want to do entertainment because I organize a lot of parties and acting at the party.

So people asked me Ivan, why don’t you do it serious? So then I went to a casting agency, took some acting lessons. And for six years I worked as an actor for different plays and also different festivals. So that’s how it all started. But it was at, I think the owner of Waterkant came to one of my place and he said at the end, Ivan.

You did a reporter is for his et cetera though. Do you want to work for Waterkant to do that? So that’s how it went. He came to do a play and then he asked me, so a lot of people think I started with interviewing people, but it was actually the interview. The reporter type was actually cast it from a theater play.

So that’s actually, I think a lot of people don’t know that, but the entertainment industry in Holland has different aspects. You have the film world, you have the theater world, you have festivals also where actors work, but you have also places like Blijdorp or a dolphin Nadia, and just like universal studios, places where actors get trained to do different assignments. And that’s very important because as an actor, you can take lessons, but when you are out in the public, then you get your biggest lesson. So sometimes the children came and they laughed and they were happy, but sometimes one threw a stone. Also. It’s not funny. It is that. So you get actually you get like the real audience and that’s yeah.

Throwing a stone is not good, but actually the child does not like what you’re doing. So you get your best lessons from those, from those festivals. And also from all those, those studio things universal studios are in Holland we have dolphinarium and for people who don’t know what that is.

Ivan: [00:08:28] But Blijdorp is the zoo, you know, so I worked as an actor in the zoo. So every week we got dressed up as a different type of animal, and then we did all kinds of assignments just to get focused about something. Sometimes the problem I even was caged like a certain, I wouldn’t say a, but as humans, we were cage because we wanted to attract attention for how it is for animals to be caged and Blijdorp liked that because they were, they had a whole different vision in that. How do you say that animal should be more in the open. Yes, it was really great.

Diego: [00:09:09] Two quick questions on that. The first the play that the individual from Waterkant saw, why the, was that locally or was it a play in the Netherlands?

Ivan: [00:09:18] it was a play in the Netherlands. I with two other actors, I had a foundation stick thing, clock slide three. And we played, we did every year we came out with the play. So it was at in Rotterdam at Nissan. Yeah. And then he asked me to be a reporter for the, for the Owru Yari festivals.

Diego: [00:09:39] Ah, that’s pretty cool. You got the flow flown in from do to celebrate, but also to

Ivan: [00:09:45] yeah. Yeah, it was really great.

Diego: [00:09:54] Okay. And the second thing I’m really curious about you, you just mentioned about dressing up as animals being in a cage, immersing yourself in the animal world. Sources have told me that during your plays here, your theater classes here, sometimes you’ve applied this, I guess, to them, seemingly unconventional methods seems to random and it kind of works.

So could you explain how that, I guess that animal acting like an animal helps. Yeah, do it there.

Ivan: [00:10:33] Yeah. A lot of assignments are, yeah. Sometimes I tell my actors to behave like snakes or behave like apes or behave, like, because sometimes we can get information from how a snake works, you know, real slow.

And then he gets up, you know, and some people have that same tendencies that same the way they walk and the way they listen to things have, so you can study a character by impersonating an animal, or by comparing an animal to that person. It’s not like the person is an animal, but they, a lot of people use talk the way they talk.

Some people are like talking really slow. You know, and then, but my, one of my next movies will be about the animal kingdom.

Jean-luc: [00:11:27] Okay. Okay. So, Diego, you, you haven’t ever actually been in an acting class with, with Ivan, I can tell you my experience from my first, it wasn’t the full on acting class. He was just trying to help some online actors on the basics of acting like in camera and on camera acting and the difference between theater acting and on-camera acting, and It was very confronting because you have to show your name across the room from one side to the other side.

And if you have never showed it your name, there is so much shame that goes into it. You have no idea, but like it it’s very confronting. You should try it once. Like everybody that’s watching or listening should try it once to just plain out, shout their name to the other side of the room, constantly as loud as you can.

And it’s. It’s very, very awkward at first, but it does get you over a certain hump. It gives you a certain confidence that it’s also something like, I’m not going to say a shame factor, but like in Suriname, we’re very much like, Oh, I’m not gonna do that because that people are going to look at me and like, and that’s basically what he’s saying in Blijdorp and those places as well.

When you go out there in public, you’re completely exposed. You have to stay in and into your role while others can just try to make fun of you and try to poke you around to see if you would react, but you got to stay in your role. And that’s, I mean, that’s where the real acting begins and that’s where my acting stops, you know?

We’re quickly gonna allow a couple of shadows because a couple of you have already comments. So, Hey Ro-Ann thank you for joining in again all the way from Barbados we have. Gregory’s back again. join in Tevin with a ferry big, good evening Jetta, also watching a good evening and Gyanno says he wants to be a lion

Diego: [00:13:25] not practicing that road. Yeah, I know.

Jean-luc: [00:13:31] We actually, he actually, I, I think Gyanno was linked to the hungry lions, so that might be a reason as well. And also a shout out to Stephanie also tuned in from LinkedIn and Marvin also tuned in from Facebook as well. So we have a packed crowd and we just got started actually. Hey, and even Giorgio is also jumping in, so we have a fairly, fairly packed crowd of people joining in And that brings us basically to the jump from the Netherlands to Suriname because at a certain point, and like, this is something that a lot of us have to do when we live abroad and we decided to come back.

What, what brought you back in the end?

Ivan: [00:14:13] Actually, when I was in Holland, during my studies, I always said to myself, I want to live in Suriname again. I didn’t know it would come so fast, but when I came here for , I already felt like this is the place where I want to live. And I’ve lived here before, before 1989, but I wanted to do more.

So I saw how many things could be different in entertainment, especially because if you live somewhere, you have to work. And if you, a lot of people told me, Ivan, you have two choices. You can go to Suriname or you can go to Hollywood. Because I have a great friend there. Of course, Sheetal leave. Like, and she told me when you can come to Hollywood, come stay at my place.

Then we can do some projects because you are on a certain, you’re going a certain direction and you can grow. You can practice your craft in Hollywood. I said, no, I want to go to Suriname. And then she said, why? I said Suriname is like, nothing has been done here. So there are so many great stories in Suriname.

There are so many things you could do in Suriname with actors because there isn’t an acting in this industry yet. So I saw more the possibilities in Suriname, and now she says, Ivan, I really, or maybe a few years ago, she talked to me. She said, wow. Now I really understand why you went to Suriname because there are so many beautiful stories because.

As a director you want to have those stories, which never been told, you know, so like Wiren like I did read on this, it’s a story that never been told. So I did a lot of those projects, like also theater plays Sick society. We’re working with people who are psych are not, how do you say apps?

Like psychiatry? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So that’s why I came to Suriname to tell Surinamese stories and to show the world what we, as a human being, living in Suriname are and what we can do and how diverse we are, our culture. But also the cultures are in their co-existence. They are still primitive, but if we can show the world that in all their coexistence, they can flourish, they can be an example for the rest of the world. So that’s how I got engaged back in Suriname to do projects here.

Diego: [00:16:53] Okay. So again, quick two questions based on that story. First one, you come back to Suriname basically you had the option. Hollywood or Suriname and one, the industry has fleshed out everything there. And then Suriname it’s basically still you know, a blank canvas for you to play with.

So what was the general reception? What were the challenges you faced here coming from the Netherlands and having the option to go to Hollywood and coming here and. Yeah. Well, what were the challenges you had to overcome there?

Ivan: [00:17:32] You mean here in Suriname? The challenges which I had to overcome here was first of all, just like Jean-luc told people when I give lessons, then you can see, especially that a lot of people need to cross over their comfort zone.

They need to you can say they need to accept that they can be a character. They can be their shell, first of all. And first of all, they need to accept that they can be a character. So in my directing point of view, I had to overcome that people should do crazy things, you know, like they should be following my lessons, but also be crossing their comfort zone.

And that was in the beginning. It was very hard to do. Because a lot of people were not used to taking acting lessons in that way. They were like more like, they want to be a an action hero. So then they would walk like action hero. But I said, no, you’re going to be an animal. And which animal relates to an action hero.

So that were challenges with actors, but now they all do like, Oh, Ivan I need to be an animal. Yes, let’s do that. Well, you know, so now they actually are used to that, but also the society, you know, when you come from Holland and you do entertainment in Suriname, then still a lot of people are like, what is this guy doing?

Does he know what he does? And how, how can we put a play together? And I teach all my students that it’s. You are in not engaged, but you have to contribute to the story to the storyline as an actor as a director the script is like your Bible. Yes. And you have to tell the story of the script.

That’s what I teach all my students. And also other directors you are in the script is just like your Bible. So treat it really careful. And when you do a role be that character and not play the character, but be the character. A lot of people want to play the character. Like I’m going to shoot everybody.

No, no, you’re that character. Somebody who wants to, who wants to shoot somebody? Doesn’t walk with a gun in his hands. No people don’t do that. It’s we, this strange example that, but, but still first of all, my family, that was also like, they have to take you seriously because it’s an entertainment industry.

A lot of people think like, it’s not, you don’t have to take classes. So Ivan is giving classes in acting and camera acting. Why should I take these lessons, camera acting? What is camera acting? Yes, nowadays they understand, Oh, that’s where it’s heading. When you take camera acting classes, lessons, you can learn different camera techniques.

In Hollywood. I went to Hollywood. It’s all the actors who are in films. Are taking acting classes, camera acting test is because they have to practice their craft. So the society now is getting open for entertainment and they really understand that there are different kinds of entertainment.

Diego: [00:21:00] Yeah. And you’ve spoken a bit about the, like the director’s side, the creative side, but generally, how can you talk also a bit about the production side, their logistics side, how consumer received it?

Ivan: [00:21:16] Yes. If I talk about the production side, I am really, really glad that there are a lot of companies in Suriname, not a lot, but maybe five or six companies who started with productions. Like the backlot started with productions. The Grip Busters have to have their own technical support system. We have also other companies like forward motion and iWrite who are busy with different gathering actors and production design.

So we are on the right track, but the right track, isn’t everything. We have to like the whole society have to get engaged and have to see that film industry is also making profit. It’s also an industry. It’s also a way of living. So a lot of people say that you cannot live from the industry, that that’s not true.

You can live from the industry, but we have to get it open for companies to invest in. You can invest in a film. And your profit is commercial advertisement. So we need to get the thinking of all those marketing departments in companies to invest more in film, not only in just an advertisement, but also in film.

And then the film can support itself and we can sell that film or that object to the world through Netflix or through Amazon prime or through iTunes. But we need to take this industry very serious. And that’s a struggle. Yeah. I’m still struggling because financially it’s really hard to get all the finances for, for a movie.

Jean-luc: [00:23:04] I do want to jump into this because we actually experienced this today were kind of discussing different options to create content for social media instead of just for like the big screen. And even with that, at a certain point, we started realizing like 10 years ago, you could go with a phone, like a regular phone.

I used to could start filming and the sound and the video was good enough for social media. And while of course with the best iPhone. It’s still looks pretty good and pretty damn good. And even better than some of the older video cameras, but the quality that people need to see has gone up because everybody now has Netflix.

Everybody now has either Amazon Bryan or HD television. So all of a sudden those production costs go up. All of a sudden, we have to realize that we have to pay actors. All of a sudden, we have to realize that you have complete logistics. So if you go over for four hours of film set it could become really, really expensive.

I’m I’ll give a story on, on that. When we talk about, we are in as well. I quickly also want to say that we’re talking about Hollywood and that’ll wants to let us know that USA is also tuned dead. Theo is also saying Ivan cheers and keep believing and Ro-Ann also jumped in to say that. It seems like acting classes are good for life, period.

It helps you to learn to be vulnerable. This really helps for staking in business as well. So that’s a good one. But then we also have another question by Gregory, which is a question specifically for you, Ivan. When will the comedy come back? I was so ready in the days for the 18 plus a journal that was like the 18 plus show and he died of laughter.

So so yeah. is that coming back, are those kinds of productions coming back? Could you get a little bit light on that one?

Ivan: [00:24:59] I think Suriname in 2011 was not ready for 18 plots. Yeah, because I got a lot of Reeboks in the city. How can you make such a bullshit movie? This is putting everything outside.

And there were a lot of people talking about how nice they like, they, they like the TV show, but you know, what’s really hard for a 10 efficiency. Aires is you have to have script writers. You have to go on. So we underestimated that. We made three, I think three episodes. Yeah, two full episodes. There’s a third one.

That’s not been released yet. Maybe we should release it, but we need of course money support, production support. So now, now it’s more it’s less difficult to do it. So I’m thinking about releasing a television series or soap series. So I’m busy with different projects now, and people are beginning to understand.

That we need more. We need, we need the television series, really the soaps era,

Jean-luc: [00:26:08] you know, just need a Netflix original from Suriname. We will, I think that the television series part, and this is very difficult because you’re, you’re getting into this new kind of hybrid style where, because let’s, let’s quickly jump into something.

You said a lot of people were, I wouldn’t say offended, but they took offense to some of the things. I mean, I remember a, a creep, a very commercial for those outside of Suriname we won’t translate what we hear is, well, let’s just say it was, it was a very fun skit. And just like with, I think with things like the Chappelle show, that was like at the beginning, like 20 years ago, there’s certain sketches you cannot do anymore because of the changes in society that it wouldn’t be appropriate anymore, but they were like 10 years ago, they were just, it was just hard on slapstick comedy.

But I think the biggest feedback back then was from an older generation. Am I correct? Like it wasn’t the youngsters are where they’re also people, people that work.

Ivan: [00:27:14] Yeah, that’s true. There were the older people who were like, is this your first project in sooner? What are you going to do with our youth?

Go back to Holland generation, but the younger generation were like, Oh, it’s funny. You know, we like it. It’s fun. It’s, it’s not serious, you know, but maybe we went, I think some words in the, in the commercial, maybe. It was too open, you know, like here, here,

Jean-luc: [00:27:48] Gregory actually remembers he remembers the exact lines, but I do want to point out like the spinoff was good. There were a couple of actors in that group. I’m thinking of course of the phenomena. I’m thinking of there were a couple of people who were really that group in levers. And so there were actually a lot of people in that group who had a great theater career as well, who kind of sold out with their show.

Ivan: [00:28:25] Yeah. And I think half of the actors played also when we run. So they yeah, they, they played in a lot of theater plays, but also the fanatic played in Sick society after that. So I think they, they were already recognizable faces. So people knew, Oh, when they do that, we should go and then, and go to that theater.

But somehow the industry is still a little bit it’s not flexible yet. It’s not flexible enough. So we need to put every, every party online, like actors that should be also like America has a screen actors Guild. Yeah. We need to bring the actors together and talk about how they can live from acting, but also directors need to come together and production.

So that’s how Hollywood was created, you know? So we, we are, we still have a lot to, to, to learn.

Diego: [00:29:28] What what’s your view on, I guess, the scale or still in a very maturing industry, the film industry, the entertainment industry, but what is your view generally on the scale of Suriname with the small size that we have and translating it scaling up, or do you think it should be something that’s propagated further into the Caribbean integrated?

So you can like, yeah,

Ivan: [00:29:57] you are you’re show, right? Because like, Suriname is not really we only have 500 or 600,000 people living here. So we have maybe like four, the max 100,000 households. That’s not enough to, to put your film on the market like here. So we need to take in consideration to be a part of the Caribbean.

The Caribbean has like. 46 million people. So maybe like 10 million households. So when you can sell your film or your theater play to the Caribbean, then you have a lot of more profit and then the industry can start. So I think Suriname can take front approach to other countries in the Caribbean so that we can work together.

The film markets, you have the European film market, you have the American film market, but we don’t have a structured Caribbean market yet. So I think it’s now time that we get a Caribbean market so that the Caribbean market can negotiate with the European market about film, sending film, et cetera. So I would say that we need to engage with other countries in the Caribbean as soon as possible. That’s what I’m now also I would say fighting for us. Yes.

Diego: [00:31:22] And I guess a quick follow up on that from the comments from Daryl, is there enough money in Suriname to live off in the industry?

Ivan: [00:31:30] Me as an actor and director, I have to do different things. I accept acting and directing. I also have to give training and lessons, so I need to be diverse, but actually I would, I would make, if there was enough money in Suriname, I would just make movies all day long, you know, but training actors is also something I need to do, because if they’re not, if they’re not trained, they don’t know the camera techniques like direct acting.

The fourth wall, there are different camera techniques, which actors have to learn and which are done in Hollywood. So. You don’t have to in Dutch you would say , how would you say, yeah,

Jean-luc: [00:32:14] there’s a certain structure already. You don’t have to start everything from scratch. So I, I think, I think so there are people here in the comments and I want to connect a couple of people in the comments actually, because Gregory is saying, I write Surinamese, paranormal.

I hope my the, the few in the future, my stories get used in the next Suriname haunted paranormal production. And I want to quickly connect Gregory to Giorgio. Giorgio says, you know where to find me we’ll to shoot some dope stuff. Gregory Giorgio was very close to a group of people that makes paranormal videos.

So it might be good to link up there because there might be some interactions as well. I think it’s also interesting to know for people that don’t know a lot about the Surinamese industry, we have a couple of key people who have. Performed really well internationally in the film industry, we don’t know a lot about them.

First of course, Conchita. Ivan already mentioned Conchita when she is just a gateway for Surinamese people, she really support Surinamese people that want to try something in Hollywood. So that’s definitely, but you do have to be serious, serious, serious. If she wants to help you, you have to be serious as well.

And I think also one of the people that’s really underrated when it comes to the scene, because we all know . We know there is most of us who are into a movie. The movie industry in Suriname know about Pamela Barra and his legacy, but a lot of people don’t know. About Milton com. And for those who are really into the, the, the darker, the cinema photography into film, we should definitely, if built-in commission Suriname, you should definitely request our whole daddy’s available to have a short chat with you because he’s one, someone who’s worked on, like the highest productions in big movies as well.

So we, we do have, we had, do have the talent. So I found a quick follow-up question on that is we’re talking about the Surinamese industry. Tevin is also saying like I said, we should be more interacting with the Caribbean as are few Caribbean movies on Fiadoo which is also interesting.

But what I’m really curious about is like, how do we make sure. That the successful Surinamese people who are in the entertainment industry, who are in the film industry, how do we make sure the same thing doesn’t happen with ha, which happens with our international sports stars that they come back, they want to do back some, want to do something for this year to community. And then all of a sudden, they’re like, yeah, we’re we were trying to help, but we don’t feel like we’re heavily being invited here, but rather our fuels are being like, pushed away. Like now we don’t want to do that. Oh, how do we, how do we bridge the gap on that one?

Ivan: [00:35:03] First of all, I would say everything takes time. Yes. Because when I came back, my first, I think the first three years were really difficult because people were telling me what I’m, what am I doing? Because where is it heading? And you know, so everything things time, you have to invest. Second, you have to invest in the country. If you don’t invest in the country, you wouldn’t get results because you need to invest and you need to be here also to invest because like I said I’m now investing knowledge in actors about the techniques, because you can write the script.

But if the actor does not know how to be that role and be that character living that character, then you can write top stories. You can have production design, but you cannot make a film. So for your answer, there has to be a structure. Just like in other countries in Europe that you have actors who get trained, you also have production design, who’s getting trained.

You also have DOPs who are all getting trained. Milton Kam is also in the Suriname, a selection committee for the Oscars and the Suriname selection committee consist of Conchita Leeflang, Milton Kam. And they all want to do projects in a structured manner with Surinamese talents.

We know that these talents are, I wouldn’t say raw, but they haven’t like got the appropriate training yet. So what this group wants to do the Suriname selection committee, they want to do projects so that we can hire the, the. The, how would you say it? We can, we can develop the industry in a structured way, because if you go to Netflix or Amazon, the first thing, what they act ask you is how about the rights who has the rights, because in your country you cannot put the rights in, eh, you know, so they don’t, they don’t take you seriously.

So if we don’t get this, we need also the support of the government. You cannot work alongside the government. It’s impossible because I could put my rights in Holland because I’ve lived there and I got my network there. But for others, you know, miss people, it’s like really not possible because they haven’t got the, the right connections. So we need to invest. We need to invest in the structure.

Diego: [00:37:51] I think that’s a perfect segway to talk about your debut movie Wiren, because for those of you who are listening, watching Wiren was I guess the first movie being pushed to the selection committee to be nominated for the Oscars.

I think this is a perfect, I guess, case study on how we could derive a structure from, so could you walk us, I guess, from the first what’s the status, how was that being, you know submitting something for the Oscars and then let’s talk about the movie in general, how that went.

Ivan: [00:38:27] Yeah, first of all I think it was in 2019 that I approached the Academy of motion, pictures and arts for how, what is the. Not only the time span, but what should be made possible to send in a movie. And then they send me their requirements. It was a whole list of all kinds of things. Yeah. And then I read the requirements and then I made contact with   was the head of the, there was the director of the department of culture.

And because it has to be from, from the country, the country has to send in a movie. So see, she got all the requirements and put a group of international people together. And those people are being how do you say balloted by the Academy of motion picture? So they go to their resume, they screen them.

And that’s how these six people got involved for. Being on the Suriname selection committee. So the Suriname is that I can talk committee is not gathered by people in Suriname, but it’s, they are being screened by the Academy of motion, picture and arts. So that was the first TRIAC the first face.

And that was nearly a year. And then the second phase was okay, how do you send the film in? And that is also you have to send it into the Suriname selection committee. If there are more films in, then you also have to how do you say you also have, they also have their requirements? The language should be native language, like for instance, and most of the crew and cars have to live in Suriname.

So there were a lot of requirements and also what the movie consists of disability people. So certain topics are real hot. Now, nowadays you can say. So it was a whole, I would say, I think two years, it took me two years before our movie got in. And that was really, really an accomplishment. If I say it myself, you know, but, but it was two years of investing and we’re now on the list, we didn’t get nominated, but Suriname has a li as a movie on the list of the Oscars.

That’s so important because now people all over the world are connecting with people here, you know, it’s requirement.

Jean-luc: [00:41:00] How many countries apply or how many the countries handed in? Just, just to give us a general feel of like, what it would mean if he got nominated, like how many, how many movies get nominated in a category? And then how many people, how many countries submitted.

Ivan: [00:41:16] There were 93 countries who submitted the film and I think three or four got disqualified because they didn’t reach the requirements. And five only get nominated. There is also, I would say the members who nominate the movie, there are 1500 members who nominate the movie.

And I, I talked with Mr. John bloom, that’s a friend of Conchita. He is also one of the directors of the Academy. And he said, you have to make a lot of advertisement for your movie. Because those 1500 people, they all need to hear about the movie. They all have to watch the movie because they, they won’t look at all the hundred movies.

So we were a little bit late with the advertisement for the movie, because we didn’t know that it was like that, that there was an urge because when we, when I heard that we ran was selected by the Suriname election committee. It was November, actually since November, we had to push it, maybe putting billboards in Hollywood, you know?

So we did not do that, but for our next movie, or if there is another movie selected, then we know these things, you know, so we are learning, we are learning. Yes.

Diego: [00:42:37] I think that’s a perfect place to put Tevin’s comment here. So should we use the success of Wiren as sort of a marker? Every filmmaker agency should strive for, because basically this is a benchmark. Now you have the framework. So is this something, yeah. This the strive for, with every, I guess future production.

Ivan: [00:43:02] Yeah. I would say we run. It’s a social drama. So you have a lot of people who don’t like social drama. You have people who like social drama. It’s not a love story. Wan people was more a love story, combining it with the elements of independent, but Wiren is a social story, combining it with the elements of rights.

So I think I, I w you cannot compare movies with each other. So the success of Wiren is maybe an opening for other film lovers to make also a movie, but still I urge them to take lessons. If it’s not online, take lessons, how you should write a story, how you should direct the story or how to act in a movie.

Jean-luc: [00:43:47] also what I do want to know is like this was in a category for international film. Is there a difference between short movies and full? Because Wiren is a full-length movie, there are some high quality, Surinamese. I mean, you played in one, which is a really high quality short movie. Would that qualify in the same category or is a different category for that one?

Ivan: [00:44:12] There’s a different category Wiren is in the international feature category. And its length should be minimal 90 minutes. So Akiki would be in the short movie, but then you have to start off the whole process because for the short movies, there should also be a short movie Suriname selection committee.

Oh really? You have to start the whole process again. So it’s, it’s like, you know, it’s a lot of work, but I think that should be done. We should, we should do that. But I think within a few months there will be a, a session where everybody can tune in and then the Suriname selection committee, really, everything will tell you everything, how we can develop that that we, the different structures to go to the Oscars.

Yes. And it’s, it’s really important that we have, we have a movie at the Oscars because it opens ways. Not only short movies, but also length movies. So,

Jean-luc: [00:45:15] but with, can we get the Giorgio is saying as well again, that short movie committee started because I mean, like in all honesty and you can correct me if I’m wrong.

Ivan I think it’s for us, like in the local market putting all of the full production, full movie, full length 90 minutes movie it’s, I mean, we’re not going to have a film every year being submitted. We are going to have to be realistic about that. And that’s something like if we could get the shark movie committed community started, I mean, that would be a little easier for, for us.

What are your takes on that? Like for people. Don’t know the production difference between a short movie and an, a full-length movie. Can you elaborate a little bit on that for us as well?

Ivan: [00:46:03] I would say actually there is also a rule at the Academy awards that you should, the Suriname selection committee should submit a movie within five years.

Actually, if you don’t do that, you can lose your license. So then you have to start the whole process. So between now and five years, we really should have a future movie sending and again, yeah. It’s really hard to make a full-length movie because of the finance, but don’t underestimate short movies because you have to tell in a short movie, you have to tell a story in 30 minutes.

That’s sometime more difficult than telling a story in one and a half hours. Yes. So I wouldn’t say on the artistic side, I wouldn’t say that it’s not difficult. It’s less difficult because I think in 30 minutes, it’s really hard to tell a story, but at the production side, the money, that’s a real problem because I think you, you need like 200,000 or 300,000 euros to make a long movie, a featured film. At least that’s what my calculation now is. It’s at least two, two to 300,000 us dollars. Yes. So

Jean-luc: [00:47:33] are we allowed to ask. The production costs for Wiren and the box office sales. What can, can you give us an idea of what the production costs were and what the box office was?

Ivan: [00:47:47] Okay. The production costs were like 90,000 euros and that’s including not only making the film, but getting the film also on the market and not on the market only, but we also went to the Netherlands film festival, but where we also got some costs, but Wiren was like a lot of people contribute to Wiren because they like the story, you know?

So that’s where we got some help from people and from different companies, like on the production side, they gave, they gave us a lot of we didn’t have to pay so much. So it was like 90,000 euros on the box office side. I can tell in general; a lot of people think like we also have marketing costs and marketing costs were like 40,000 euros.

That’s not a lot because most of the marketing costs of different films or like two thirds of their general budget. So when you have, yeah, it’s like 2/3 but we didn’t have any money. So I had to find a way and Sander and Stephanie, we had to find some ways, how can we get this film in the market without money?

And that was like Suriname style. Being like we just went, I just, I, I just called a few distributors in holiday and I was there, and I said, I want to come, blah, blah. And the first one called me back and then I went to, to talk with them and then they said, okay, Ivan we’re going to do it because you believe in the movie, it got selected by the Dutch film festival.

And that’s why we also believe in it, et cetera. And that was where the distribution deal came. And it was, I would say, not in Corona’s time, but I think we were like around 30,000 euros, like box office. That’s not a lot. Yes. But I also learned from that, from that part, because it’s really important for filmmakers to get attention.

And the only attention we could gain was through social media. And that’s where redone was like real strong Surinamese social media. Everybody did their part even you helped us with a lot. So that’s where we then came in and then the distribution deal came with Netflix and then with iTunes, but it went through our distribution distributor.

So yeah, they took the risk, but Netflix doesn’t deal with individuals. They deal with distribution companies and they also select your movie if they don’t believe in it, they won’t select your movie. So that’s where we also score that our movie came in on Netflix, then other companies and other people got interested in, in the movie.

Jean-luc: [00:50:52] Okay. But I think also the Netflix revenues don’t get accumulated on the box box office. Right. It’s like separate that doesn’t get included in the box office.

Ivan: [00:51:02] I’m going to tell you how Netflix works. Netflix works per region. So like for instance, the region Benelux, we have a distribution contract, they pay a certain amount for region Benelux.

When they, when they like America, you can sell your movie for Netflix. If they believe in it for like maybe three, 400,000, but they can also take your movie and sell it for the world. Then they, it will be on a few millions, but we got our first and that’s in the 10 thousands. We got, we got the deal for Netflix with Benelux.

Jean-luc: [00:51:42] So we have to use our feet. We have to use our VPN to do, to watch it on Netflix.

Ivan: [00:51:47] But you can also see it on Amazon prime video so you can download it or hire it. And that’s also a certain way you can promote your movie. Amazon is not that difficult, like Netflix and iTunes because on that you don’t get like Amazon is much it’s easier to put your film on.

Jean-luc: [00:52:09] Okay. So for the international viewers Oh, you, if you want to watch Wiren it’s like Ivan said it had to be in Dutch. But it, I think it’s subtitled in English as well. And you can actually watch that on Amazon prime. So that’s, that’s really cool.

Ivan: [00:52:24] Yes. People in the United States and United Kingdom, I’m not sure yet if you can watch it. I think so. I think so you can see it on Amazon prime. If you have a credit card or through the American system. You can watch read. And also, yes, I would say I’m, I’m going to check it out, but I think so because the Dutch, the Dutch version people could watch from Suriname. So I think with the American version with English subtitles, I think so in the Caribbean.

Diego: [00:52:55] Thanks for sharing that I find. And it’s a really listening to all of this from getting distributors, getting it’s a very complicated process and I I’m going to try and sum it up. So basically, for the Oscars you have this committee per category and for each category, you need a separate team to go through the submissions. And that, that gets considered by the bigger committee of 1500 plus people. And then you need to separately market that to those people. So that. Gets added to your basically your total budget of production and yeah, those numbers, you’re calling 200 k on 300 K two thirds go into marketing mix. You wonder, like, if so much goes into marketing, like what do the companies in the end to invest in it? Get out of it.

Ivan: [00:53:54] You know, actually I would say we should, we, we should start a distribution company in the Caribbean. I would say, if you want to make money in this industry, you should start a distribution company and get the licensing from different because we don’t have distribution companies yet, I would say in the Caribbean, but maybe there are a few already, but I don’t know them.

So I would say if you, if you want to make money, start a distribution company Should we start a distribution company in Suriname? I would say no, because there are two, there are not so many households yet.

Diego: [00:54:34] I just wanted some clarity on that and the distribution and yeah, you answered that part of the that’s where the money is, but the question was you get the funding from people, companies invest in the movie and more than half of that money is invested in marketing. So what is the ROI tangibly for the companies that invest in the movie industry, aside from just believing in the idea,

Ivan: [00:55:03] you know, 2/3 if you have a budget of like $1 million, then your production costs should be like 200,000 or 300,000. The 700,000 to be invested in marketing because you need billboards, you need F in every country, you should do your own marketing, you know?

So if people invest so much money, then you should say that distribution companies, that’s where actually the money is made. Because if you make a distribution deal, you get like a percentage. So what I learned is that you should make distribution deals in different regions and every distribution deals should differ from every region.

So like, you should try to get your movie on Netflix and iTunes, like in the Benelux. But for worldwide audience, if you can get it on Amazon prime and do your own advertisement, then maybe you can get more because distribution companies are like in the middle of the streaming platforms and TV and you, so you should really get a good distribution deal.

So when they come with the contract, you should read it real good with the lawyer. And then talk about some of those pointers, because if you get, like, for instance, you get 70000 euros for Netflix, then you have to divide it with your distribution company. Then the distribution company gets like 50% and you 50%, but some contracts or differ sometimes distribution companies. Get 75% and you get 25%. So you need to read your contract real good. And if you don’t know what it says, then you should take a lawyer.

Diego: [00:57:04] Do distribution companies generally invest in the production of movies.

Ivan: [00:57:09] True. Because if they believe in you then for your second movie, they will be also invest, invest investing in your movie if they believe in you. So I wouldn’t say only distribution companies, but I also got some mails in. So Ivan if you’re going to do your second movie, can we talk before you do it? So that’s how, that’s why we need to get Wiren more in the open, but not only I, but not only me, but also actors and production design, et cetera. The more we get Wiren in the open, the more calls will go to the whole production crew and also the actors.

So maybe I am promoting Wiren reel a lot on my social media, but I urge also the actors and the production crews to promote themselves much more. And don’t listen, don’t listen. Don’t listen to what people say that it’s too much. No, do it. Then you’ll get more attention.

Diego: [00:58:17] Yeah, I guess the way I see it now Wiren is just like spearheading is the vehicle to open this path up. So to get access to this funding for follow-up productions, and if you can get a distribution company or Netflix to heavily invest in the next production, you’re kind of guaranteed on distribution from their part as well.

Ivan: [00:58:41] But there are a lot of rich people in this world who do not know what they have to do with their money. We think that a lot of people don’t want that they want to invest. There are a lot of rich people in this world who really want to, if they only can sit at the front row of the previous era, then they won’t want to invest. So, but the first have to know you and if you don’t promote yourself and that’s something, that’s something I really want to, I can talk about that self-promotion thing, I think for an hour, but we do it, we do it. So we don’t do it in Suriname. And I’m asking myself, why isn’t everybody like promoting everything? Like, I’m like, I dunno, maybe Jean-luc can help us with that. But I think it’s, it’s something Dutch

Jean-luc: [00:59:37] it’s, we’re not aware of the effect of a personal brand and a brand in general. And that has to do with again looking at it in like within the borders of Suriname. We often, when it comes to, like, when we think in Suriname, we often think within the borders of Suriname now we don’t think outside of the borders and with, with the internet, with how everything is developing, that’s slowly changing, but we’re not aware of like how quickly that can go.

I want to give a quick tidbit on this because it’s very interesting that you mentioned that I can’t fully announce it yet, but this year will be my first year, first year speaking at an international conference on social media. And I’ve had multiple people like international speakers who I’ve spoken with. Who’s who’ve seen me speak on, on low and local conferences. Say like, Hey, your, your, your talk was really good. It’s on an international level, but I never felt confident enough to say like, put myself out there. You have these people like Americans, for instance, they will cold call a hundred conferences.

They will just send their CV to a hundred conferences in saying, I want to speak at your conference. I want to speak at your conference. I want to speak at your conference. And then they’ve sent out a hundred applications to speak at conferences for free and to have the bite and they get to put those on their CV and say, like, I spoke at that, at that conference.

That’s still scary for me. I don’t want to do that. So, so that jumps into this conversation because I’m very scared to do that. And now I got lucky through a connection that helped me out. Somebody who mentors me and says like, I think you’re good enough. So. She actually got me to speak. And I’m going to be speaking for a conference, which has about 18,000 participants joining into the conference, which is really, for me, it’s a, I’m panicking, just hearing of it, but that’s just through connections and the other way around, because for the social media conference, we try to get speakers from abroad everywhere, and we’re only getting them through connections.

People we’ve met people we’ve conversed with. We got an A-list speaker last year, like somebody asks 20,000. K just to speak for an hour. And the only reason we got that person is because we had a genuine conversation for 15 minutes in San Diego. So that’s, that’s something that we, we, we kind of forget that we have to put ourselves out there, like Diego, Diego introduced me to this NFT.

I’m going a little bit off topic, but just for people in Suriname and in the Caribbean to understand that we actually have the potential, and we are good enough. We’re just afraid to put ourselves out there. Somebody the Diego knows quite well is in the NFT market and, and an international global competition was in the top three.

And also, I think already her, I heard today sold his first million in NFT art. I mean, that’s crazy. It’s for us 10 years ago, we wouldn’t think that these possibilities were there for us. And, and like you’re saying Ivan we’re. We’re not aware that through the internet, we can reach out to anyone.

All we have to do is be honest, be authentic and show our skillset, and then people will knock on your door. Like, Hey, this is pretty good. Where are you from Suriname. Okay. And especially during COVID time. So,

Ivan: [01:03:03] so the critics will also knock on your door, you know, but you have to engage them.

Jean-luc: [01:03:08] Yeah. Yeah.

So I think that’s, it’s very difficult. And, and what kind of advice do we have to people? Because it is kind of a tribe it’s kind of, you’re moving into the tribe and you’re getting to know these people with similar interests. And it’s very scary because you’re an outsider and you feel like Diego called it the imposter syndrome because that’s also his personal experience from, from the, the, the podcasting experience he recently had. So how do you deal with that? How do you get yourself comfortable enough? To be able to network and put yourself out there.

Ivan: [01:03:44] First of all, don’t be scared. When I started the movie, Wiren with the crowdfunding, we send mails to, I think, like 100 companies. And I know Stephanie that’s one of the executive producers. She said Ivan so many mails and if they all say, no, I told her Stephanie one is going to say yes, and if you have one who says, yes, Suriname is a small country, you know, so if one says, yes, then the next one may be, we’ll say yes. And then you can go about which one that you already have to, you know, and then three and four.

And I think we send like 100 mails, but I think she would have stopped maybe like 10 meals or 15 minutes and said, no. I said, no, I’ve, I’ve, I’ve, I’ve learned that at my studies business engineering that you really need to go forward and never think that your project is less worth than somebody else project.

So what I want to tell people is never give up, but also study the companies also, because if you send you, if you want funding from a company, don’t just send. A meal, which says like, I want money, but study the company and how the company can also profit from your project. And I think that where people don’t work on, they don’t do their research.

I tell my actors also do your research. If you’re going to make a commercial for a company Fernandes or Ozon now, just do your research on their project on, on the, on the product, which you you’re going to show. Don’t just go as an actor and want to do, you know I did, I did like advertisement for Fernandes and I, you know, I, I really wanted to know what the, what the bread was like, you know?

So I also ate one, you know, you, you really need to be engaged in the whole process and everything. So do your research. I think. I think a lot of people start projects, but they haven’t done their research and they maybe they don’t know how to do their research also. So that’s where we got to help them also.

Diego: [01:06:03] Yeah. I think this applies for not just film, not just social media, not just speaking as any engagement. It’s about relationship building and what Jean-luc said all this from the social media conferences were all built through like even a 15-minute talk and spark something maybe five years along the way, but it’s having these little conversations and putting yourself in that position and yeah, you’ll feel afraid. You’ll feel that imposter syndrome, but from my experience, the other party, usually if it’s not a big company is feeling the same thing and. Then you get two people feeling that same thing and the one that makes the first move basically like, Oh yes. Now we got a match. That’s how on? But I, I quickly want to go, go through the comments before we the usual look staff as what are you afraid of?

Welcome back.

Jean-luc: [01:07:02] She put in earlier that that she was jotting again, that she wasn’t that way, but that she’s joining again. But yeah, I’m, I’m not gonna elaborate on that too much, maybe another time, but yeah,

Diego: [01:07:12] I think I can get the answers Rowan test and Gretchen look looking forward to it. Grant, this also says a belief in your shelf, so we got people through the tearing your lunch and look, so

Jean-luc: [01:07:24] that’s good.

I’m really, I’m really grateful, but let’s, let’s go to the, the, the wife’s bed set by Tevin. I really liked that.

Diego: [01:07:34] Yeah. So apparently Tevin. So my tweet, I put out a few days ago and Giorgio was probably laughing right now too. Cause I had a talk with George about this. But yeah, the D the way I see it, like context, perspective and leverage equals opportunity, and basically anything you do it’s, you know what situation are we in?

Like context Suriname, which factors do we have? We have people from like Ivan experience from the Netherlands and connections is Hollywood it’s perspective from different sides. And what leverage do we have there? So combining that formula, it just came to me. Is any opportunity or creating an impact?

Jean-luc: [01:08:21] Definitely, definitely. And, and quickly on the research part, what, what Ivan already said is if, if you’re doing research and you’re researching something and you have an idea and draw out your research, you can’t find anyone who has done the same thing. You haven’t done your research properly. That’s just one thing. If you’re doing research on something you want to do like a concept, an idea that you have and winning your research, you haven’t found anybody else who has ever done that in the world. You haven’t done your research properly. That’s just what I want to say as well.

Diego: [01:08:56] Awesome. And I think that’s a perfect place to. Go through a closing, a round with Ivan so if anyone in the comment section has any final burning question, drop it now. And

Jean-luc: [01:09:14] otherwise as if his side leg is still going, because for the people that don’t, haven’t seen Wiren it’s about a deaf of deaf born, a boy who moves from the districts of Suriname to the inner city and is fighting for equal rights. So Ivan how is your sign language. You can still write your name and sign language is only four letters. So I’m pretty sure

I’m not sure about you though. I have to, I have to ask Wiren again and again, what? Yeah, I might have to do the basic course again.

Diego: [01:10:20] I guess we have one final question from the comments section and then I’ll what future movie planters, Ivan has and then from my side, if you have one tip recommendation for people interested in the film industry just starting out, be it in the creative direction, side or actors, what would you recommend?

Ivan: [01:10:41] Okay. My plan that are three questions. My plans, I’m now busy writing two stories. I have an a love story in the 17 hundreds in Suriname, and I’m giving it a little bit of twist, but it’s also based on a certain period between 1,703 and 1,740. And it’s about you can say a case also, and it’s about the government’s family.

They are going through a lot. Suriname has just been came in Dutch hands after the English captivity. So that’s, that’s a certain phase in Suriname of where we don’t hear a lot of. So I’m gonna I really want to do that movie. And I told also some actors already and they are really, really happy to hear that I’m going to do a casting for this movie.

Maybe in a few months, I will do that casting process. But I think in 2023, I will put the movie in production? So I I’m doing like two years of research. I also need to talk to some historians still. And yeah, I really, I really want to tell this story. It’s a love story, a controversial love story.

So I really want to do that. And my second movie is about the animal kingdom and I think that’s for 2025. Yes, the animal which we started with the animals, the animal kingdom is going to come in. Yeah. I really want, you know, Suriname is part of the Amazon. So why don’t you have all lion King story are our own love story between animals and singing an actress and yeah, it’s going to be great. I really put that in focus for 2025 because that’s it has a high production value financially. So, so you cannot do it like within a year. You really need a lot of money because we have to have all the green screens available, but I think Suriname as the real, the, the atmosphere and. The whole interior is like, make just when you walk, you really want to see an animal kingdom coming to life.

People dress as animals.

Diego: [01:13:07] What would you recommend? People just entering the industry or wanting to go into acting that the first thing they should do a read, I guess, take acting lessons with Ivan

Ivan: [01:13:20] always come to my acting classes and sometimes they can also come and just watch me how I give my lessons. I would be glad to if they would come one time and just look how the lessons are being given so they can come all the actors in Suriname or people who want to act. But maybe I’ve said it before research. If people want to direct, they have to do their research and research. Isn’t only done by reading books, but it’s also talking with people who already did a project because you can read things in books, but if you never practice your craft in daily life, then you, you don’t learn a lot. So to other directors in Suriname, I want to tell them they can always give me a call. I’m glad to give them advice on some, some things, but you have to take the camera or take your phone and go film, go film and evaluate your film. And if you want to be your film to be evaluated by someone who’s already working in the professional scene, then do that. You can always come to me and I can help you. You got better in your craft.

Diego: [01:14:35] so quickly on it? How can people find you? How can people reach out to you?

Ivan: [01:14:40] Ivan Tai-Apin on Facebook. I have my own personal Facebook and I also have my page. Ivan Tai-Apin and they can always call me my telephone number is also on my Facebook. So I’m open, I’m transparent. And I think that that’s something Oh, sorry. Something flew here. Yeah, I’m open. I’m transparent. And I think they can always reach me through Jean-luc or to Diego. Yeah.

Diego: [01:15:11] Amazing. So guys, if you’re listening, make use of this opportunity, if you’re interested and I guess, Jean-luc if you care to go to the last comments and then we could close up.

Jean-luc: [01:15:23] Yeah. I’ve I’ve quickly gonna ask Ivan if you had the opportunity to act or direct in a Hollywood movie which you take it.

Ivan: [01:15:31] If I could play in a Hollywood movie, I would take it

to act or to direct. Yes. Yeah. I would really direct a Marvel movie. Yes. Opportunity.

I would introduce new characters because the characters they have, or like really like they come from a certain point of masculinity, but strong. But I would also introduce characters, which would combine their higher level of consciousness into the Marvel industry. And those characters would be taking over the whole bar industry. Yes, I would direct, not super mad, but maybe, maybe rainbow man.

Jean-luc: [01:16:29] Okay. If Ivan could meet or collaborate with any actor producer director, who would, he would like to meet or collaborate with

Ivan: [01:16:38] with actor? I think I would like to collaborate with a Will Smith and Tom Hanks because yeah, I think Tom Hanks is one of the best actors ever. He sees he can play any, any role producer. I think Tyler Perry. I’m I haven’t reached out to him yet, but sometimes they are also interested in new directors and actually how the movie Wiren is now on the list of the Oscars. They can all watch it. It’s in the screening room and they have access to it.

So producer director, I think Tyler Perry too. Maybe he wants to invest in my new movie and a director. No, I haven’t thought about that. Collaborating with the director that just didn’t came in now. I w I want to act in movies also. So if Christopher Nolan asked me to act in this movie, I would glad to act in this movie.

Jean-luc: [01:17:41] Okay. We have, you have heard it here first. The first, first concepts of 2030, the new Marvel character rainbow man. And as Greg would say, Sick, this AF weakness we can see that we can do, but that was it for this week as always, the full episode will be available on Spotify and your streaming platforms. On Saturday, we will be here with a brand new edition next Tuesday, Ivan many. Thanks for being our guests. This was Social Confoes I’m Jean-luc that’s Diego. And thank you all for watching and being interactive. Like always see.

Ivan: [01:18:28] Bye bye. Thank you guys.

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