Social Confoes

Hosted ByDiego Ameerali & Jeanluc van Charante

Social Confoes 027 – TEA TIME: Mid-Year Check-in and Confoes Roadmap

Jean-luc and Diego have a midyear check-in on the state of #SocialConfoes and talk about what’s to come in the next half of 2021.

Episode Overview

  • 0:00 – Intro
  • 1:33 – Things we’ve learned in the first half of 2021
  • 13:50 – Challenges we are currently facing
  • 20:20 – Why do we even have guests on
  • 28:58 – Thoughts on live audio platforms like Clubhouse
  • 36:34 – State of podcasting in Suriname
  • 56:08 – Social Media algorithms and distribution
  • 1:03:31 – Closing off

Video Version of the Episode

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Full Transcript

Good evening. Good morning. Good afternoon. Wherever you are in the world. Welcome back to the second half of the year on social convos. We’re on episode 27 now, and it’s time for us to reevaluate what we’ve been doing. I’m your host Diego, and I’m here with Jean-luc welcome guys. Jean-luc how’s it going?

Jean-luc: [00:01:00] I’m just loving it, like right on the dot nine. O’clock is Gregory jumps in. and goes where my boys at.

Diego: [00:01:07] We right here. You’re right here.

Jean-luc: [00:01:09] So yes. Hello. Quite well, I’m happy. I’m just thinking contemplating how the first half of 2021 went and there’s a lot to talk about that isn’t related to guests or guests related.

Diego: [00:01:26] Thanks for joining us on YouTube. So I guess let’s get straight into it Jean-luc. 2021.

Jean-luc: [00:01:33] So basically we have four topics are five topics you put in an extra topic. So things that we’re going to talk about today are what has 2021 taught us so far then what are the challenges that we’re facing with Social Confoes and how are we actually overcoming them?

Which you will die. Do a deep dive into podcasting and podcasting in general. Then we go into tips for everyone who’s starting a podcast and what are we going to do different the second part of 2021. So you wanted me to start, what have we learned so far?

Diego: [00:02:03] Kick it off?

Jean-luc: [00:02:05] Well, the thing that I learned is I do need to start separating different interests.

I’m thinking people that are watching, especially on Facebook are getting confused. Between the entrepreneurial podcasting side and the sports side, because when we go live it’s either sports are Social Confoes and. Separate them a little bit, a little bit more there there’s overlap, like for instance, thanks for joining in that.

Rajiv, doesn’t mind talking about our national soccer team or football team, and also talking about things that we discuss in Social Confoes, but I’m fearing that I’m going to have to decide for a couple of channels to switch it around, to say like, okay, on Facebook, we’re gonna start streaming, mainly Social Confoes and on YouTube, we’re going to stream the Loeki Di  show.

So that’s a big change that we’re, that that I’m going to make is to kind of separate my channels. I feel like on Facebook, I want to go more Suriname centric content. So anything that has to do with Suriname, anything that’s positive about our country, just to get people more motivated, get people’s hopes up a little bit more.

That’s something that. And then, and then this show actually is going to be more being promoted on Instagram and LinkedIn. I think I’m going to move Social. Confoes more to Instagram, LinkedIn, of course, it’s going to be on Facebook as well, but it’s going to be on LinkedIn. And here’s the interesting part I have.

No, I can see who the LinkedIn user is Bonacci,

Diego: [00:03:42] but I’m guessing it’s unreal. I knew you’ll say yes if it’s here.

Jean-luc: [00:03:47] I knew either Anil or Gyanno probably Gregory wants to know a little bit about the other podcasts. So basically, Social Confoes is more about social conversations and getting thoughts, process and ideas.

And I, it’s not ideas where it’s spreading like that, but it’s having a casual conversation with people. Achieved something or did something interesting. And lucky the show is just a show with who is sports commentator on national television. And he’s actually the representative asking the questions during the gold cup currently, and we are old beach volleyball partners.

So we were you beach volleyball champions. Back in the day, we used to be teammates and regular volleyball as well. And we had the love for sports, which we continuously were talking about. Like, we have to do a sport podcast. We do have to do a sports podcast. We have to do a sports podcast and now is basically transformed into this hour to two hour long weekly show which we mainly dive into.

Diego: [00:04:51] quick question on the Loeki Di Show you and Dion started like last year as the podcast format on Facebook you guys went live there, released episodes on anchor. So would you still consider it a podcast at it’s core or has it in a full blown show

Jean-luc: [00:05:10] it’s something for point 3 but maybe that’s let’s, let’s put it into perspective. Social Confoes is a podcast where we allow our listeners to watch the podcast live. It’s kind of more of a Joe Rogan kind of vibe to it. I mean, we’re not that famous, not that many people watching, but the idea is that we have the discussion and people can follow the discussion live, but there’s still a podcast element to it.

And we actually do get downloads and streams from the website and from Spotify. So that’s a little bit different. The other night I started audio. We actually released, I think, 10 episodes on Spotify, and those were really kind of scripted shows. We would get started with a song. We would talk about specific topics.

We would go into specific sports and it was really for us to share our sports knowledge, to have the recognition that we know our sports, because both Dion and I we’ve played at least five different sports competitively. So we have kind of a very big array of knowledge on different sports, but in the end, because Natio Suriname is so popular we ended up going more for, for football.

And it’s also the viewers at certain times, when you have a couple of hundred viewers coming in from different platforms, day demand, kind of where the attention span goes. And they also punish us if we, if we disengaged too much from, from where they went. we, we lose like 50 hours.

Like if we touch upon a subject that people can’t relate to. So basically we talk a lot, a lot about football. We talk a little bit about basketball and we talk about Surinamese sports. So if the Olympians like Renzo Tjon A Joe Jair Tjon En Fa goes on the Opti, going to the Olympics, those are kind of topics that they’re still interested in.

But if it, if we start talking about tennis and we’re want to start talking about Jocko, each Nadella, feather, and their legacy, it kind of crumbles away. So that’s a very interesting kind of dynamic with, with the audience. And that’s something I want to do more as well. I feel like we’re doing a pretty good job with Social Confoes in, in.

Giving the direction, but still in some cases, we’re kind of like, let’s get a, a guest on our show kind of show. And that’s, that’s not the idea. I think we do also want to talk about certain topics and do deep dives in certain topics. And I do feel that we should also ask our viewers and maybe do a next week, do a show, which is completely based on questions from people that you in, in weekly.

So that’s kind of, that’s kind of the, the balance right now trying to figure out what works more or something we also noticed is if we have guests from outside of, of Suriname, it’s it gets a different vibe before the show was starting. I was thinking like there are a couple of fun episodes, which were really episodes with Surinamese people. And even we, if we talk in Dutch, it still had a different fight than when we have an international guest.

Diego: [00:08:12] Definitely. Definitely. But before we go deeper into that yeah. So rounding off the 20, 20 to 2021 teachings, what you’ve learned so far did you have anything to add or you want me to take over here?

Jean-luc: [00:08:23] Yeah, no, for me, it’s just niching out like saying like, okay, this is what we want to focus on. This is what it’s going to be important. This is going to work. I might even start streaming on, on different platforms and focus completely on LinkedIn instead of also posting on Facebook. I really, I haven’t considered, which is the direction to go to.

I I’ve, I’m really not figuring out also the, you, the LinkedIn statistics don’t show. So I can actually see how many people are watching it from LinkedIn afterwards. I can see the views of course, which kind of shows that people that tune in, but as we’re doing the show, the condor for, for stream yard, doesn’t actually show how many people are watching on it.

Diego: [00:09:04] Gotcha. Before we go into your question, Greg, let me around this point of, so from my side, I’ve been, yeah. What I’ve learned, I’ve basically learned how to set up platform from scratch. But given that experience and yeah that knowledge we started last year as, you know, sporadically recording episodes every few weeks and then releasing it.

That’s where I started experimenting. But when we had our call, like at the end of the year, I told you I was back that’s where I really hit the switch. Like, okay, let’s just look at this more seriously, branch out. The other shows, give them a separate show, not make it all gone.

Boats pulled up their website. It has been a learning journey and my approach has mainly been, I have not been so. Data centric from the beginning. And I think that that helped as in just focusing on the creation process on the content helped me not get the motivated at looking at the low non existing numbers in the beginning.

So that, that that’s kind of we’ll probably go into the depth later, but that’s kind of one thing I learned like really focused and understanding how the format works and what really works, what can consider be considered a podcast. And the other thing. So you have distribution creation and also the post-production and what I’ve learned from the post production process that has helped me take in and synthesize information.

I’d say more efficiently or more frequently, I can now easily listen to any media at 1.5 speed via either video or audio podcast, I guess.

Jean-luc: [00:10:55] Is that a good thing though? Is that, is that a good thing or are we talking too slow? Should we speed up ourselves? Like, should she chose me more fast? You know,

Diego: [00:11:06] it, it saves me time and, you know, doing research, you know, reading and et cetera.

And one thing that triggered me to do that really during the fellowship, she’s actually in my mastermind group, I had a woman from Australia. She said audiologist, and she actually told me, you can train yourself. Do read, listen, and, you know, take, get information faster. And when she told me that I consciously started paying attention to how I did the editing. And over a few months, I slowly around it up and now it’s like, I can’t listen or edit slower anymore. So it’s kind of weird, but

Jean-luc: [00:11:42] again, is this a skill? Yeah, of course. I mean, it’s good. It’s efficient, but, and again, doesn’t it kind of That this is, this is really a problem in society now everything’s so fast-paced, I mean, w I did a lecture this Monday, I did a lecture on social media, online marketing, and we talked about the fact that a goldfish has an attention span of eight seconds and a humans, half of an attention span of seven seconds.

So it kind of is like the long form kind of only works if something is hype. That’s why some of the more successful shows kind of day focused on getting guests in that will get the views in because at a certain point, it’s all about, and it’s interesting that you said that it isn’t about the numbers, but it’s actually about the value of the content, which is a really, really good thing to take in consideration.

But then in the other hand, you do need the, the fast pace, the adrenaline rush, the hype to actually get enough viewers in to make it worthwhile because otherwise you’re in the, and you’re also with like I have to do something because nobody’s watching,

Diego: [00:12:46] it’s just a balancing game. And I think that kind of kept me going from my side just because there are so much to learn and I didn’t have to pay much attention.

Okay. Now every thing is set with stats. Should we start looking now? And then how do we go sometimes send you the stats, but that they’re still on the lower priority for me at least. But it just does go to show that if you projected on, you know, a six month timeline, that there is a consistent. Growth.

There are some dips every now and then, but if you spend it out, it’s like the, you know, the SMP 500, it keeps going up.

Jean-luc: [00:13:24] Yeah. So we, cause I don’t actually have that much insight in, especially the downloads and people actually listening to the podcast. So that does interest me because if people miss the show, they listen to it.

I’m also interested if we have recurring listeners outside of Suriname not like non-Surinamese people outside of Suriname, what kind of join June into the podcast. So if you do, please do reach out because I’m, I’m really curious.

Diego: [00:13:50] Yeah. That’s a good transition to the second point. One of the challenges that you’re facing is getting that feedback.

I’ve been, you know, trying to implement the newsletter thing, but I’ve implemented it, but I have no strategy in mind. And this is where I’d like to, you know, brainstorm with you guys on how to we can actually tap into that. More feedback and more tangible feedback from people. Why do you think on that?

Jean-luc: [00:14:18] So here’s another thing, like, like I said, I’m kind of trying to figure out which platform mixes with which platform and I’m really feeling like my Facebook page is completely over

Diego: [00:14:31] saturated.

Jean-luc: [00:14:33] Yeah. It’s, it’s also, there’s so much in different things going on on it that people are really confused. Like it’s, it’s not, it’s not working. So

Diego: [00:14:43] my gut feeling not based on the research, at least my gut feeling is telling me that we should pay more attention to LinkedIn. And maybe even Twitch, but LinkedIn, LinkedIn as a top priority.

That’s my gut feeling for now.

Jean-luc: [00:15:01] I think that’s the best. I also interested in, in putting the recaps videos on, on Instagram because I do feel they do quite well. And if it’s solely that kind of content on LinkedIn on, on Instagram and we’ll also work and I give it’s all over the place at one work. So basically it’s going to be, Facebook is going to be different from Instagram, Instagram, and LinkedIn are going to be similar, similar Facebook and YouTube will have some kind of connection, but YouTube will be way more sports oriented.

And then Tik TOK is more for the fun stuff. So it’s kind of kind of being balanced out and decided because the traditional model and that’s of course the, the Gary Vee model was very, you put in a pillar of content and you start micro content thing all out of it. And yes, it’s something you can. But I think it would work

Diego: [00:15:50] in that mine though, is, you know, master one first master one first to the T and then trickle down to the other platforms.

Yes. I think that’s the caveat

Jean-luc: [00:16:03] and that for me is so boring. It is because, the, the thing about doing multiple things is it allows you to switch at certain times, and yes, it confuses people, but you have the freedom to switch. If you’re like really into something like you have one kind of niche and you just triple down on it and you have like a hundred thousand followers at a certain point, and you want to abandon that.

Like, you’re like, okay, this doesn’t interest me anymore. I’m going to do something completely different. It’s like, you lose everything. The momentum is like completely, completely gone. So, yeah, so I’m, I’m more looking towards like, okay, what, what can I do on what platform that makes, that makes a lot of sense and also accepting that like, accepting, like, okay, yeah.

It’s fun that you’re going live on Facebook, which should you go live on Facebook with dish show because the audience actually is more interested in seeing a photo of you supporting your nation. And that’s, what’s attracts a lot of attention and that’s what the Facebook algorithm picks up. So, so that’s also something like I’m going to give a short example to explain to people what, what I mean?

I think last year, somewhere around last year, I started putting posts on Facebook with a lot of decks. Just, these were just posts where I was kind of projecting thoughts and putting thoughts on paper.

Diego: [00:17:28] Yeah. I remembered them as a whole block post, basically. I remember some of them.

Jean-luc: [00:17:33] Yeah. And those posts were continuously growing, growing, growing, growing, and all of those posts.

These are all text posts, no facials, no video, nothing just text posts and it would just subsequently go over a hundred or reactions, like all of those posts. But at a certain point, there were kind of becoming this pressure to continue posting that every day, which is not why I’m on social media, why I use social media, it was kind of this pressure.

Like if I don’t post a similar post to this, then the momentum is going to go away. The hype is going to go away and it, it kind of took over me.

Diego: [00:18:08] And let’s go through the comments. Yeah.

Jean-luc: [00:18:11] Yeah. I do want to do quickly because we have a locals. We have a streamer who actually jumped in to talk a little bit as well. I think you can use all platforms that benefit you as long as you have a strategy with a goal. It’s also true. It’s also true. And yeah, you have a stream going, so maybe we should check out your stream as well on Twitch. So if you’re a, if you’re interested, make sure to check it out

Diego: [00:18:35] and yeah. And to go back last comment, since we transitioned to this next point, I think Gregory’s question here ties into this nicely. Why the conscious decision to explain the thought process and struggles to the audience? Why take the audience on this journey? Basically, what we’re doing now?

Jean-luc: [00:18:50] Do you want to start off?

Diego: [00:18:52] My, I think if it comes down to. The whole documentation thing, the whole if you go back to Gary Vee document, don’t create, but also to show that it isn’t all, you know, rainbows and unicorns, once the end product is out there, it gives us a sense of relate-ability and kind of association.

And yeah, Greg, you are another co-host on another show, but that doesn’t give away that you don’t have input on this show either. and it’s also a way for us to commit to releasing something every week. And it’s good to break that rhythm every now and then otherwise you get some kind of like tunnel vision.

a few months ago, I was in this moment, like we gotta get a guest, we gotta get a guest. We got to get together instead of looking at, okay, how can you frame this so that the topics are thematically. It makes sense. Where do we want to go? Where do our personal interests go? So with that, you know, back and forth, it kind of helps bring perspective again on where we are now and kind of a self-reflection in that sense.

Jean-luc: [00:20:00] That’s a good question. That’s a good question.

Diego: [00:20:02] That’s why I think it’s important. And to take the audience on this journey, even if we, I, at least I suspect that no one even shows up it’s out there. And you showed up. Some people on Twitch showed up. Some people on LinkedIn showed up. So there we go.

Jean-luc: [00:20:20] So Diego, now we do have to ask the question, why, why do we need to have guests every week? So what’s, what’s the, the psychology behind it.

Diego: [00:20:32] So if we look at the podcasting format, there’s two main formats that are popular. So you got the, the, the interview style, very get an expert or someone, you know, to the guest on the show either to have a certain expertise, but also to that has a, maybe a overlapping audience with the common interests and just to share perspective on a certain topic or something else.

So, one, one big reason is, you know, it helps with distribution as well as If you have a guest on the, their extended network, their extended channels have a chance to get exposed to our content as well. Secondly, I think guests come in tiers as well, you know high-tier, mid- tier and, you know lower tier guests.

And I think that helps with kind of leverage. If you have someone like a Gary Vee on your show, it boosts the show tremendously, and it gives you some exposure and leverage to go sponsorship depending on where you want to go. But on the other hand, if we don’t have guests, then you’re more focused on content, maybe individual thoughts monologuing, but that even that format can be split into more categories. You have storytelling podcasts, so there’s different formats.

Jean-luc: [00:21:54] Okay, but that’s from a ferry. So now you’re getting into the difference between a podcast and a live show. the focus is on the pallet guests. No, no, because this is interesting. I’m going to tell you why this is interesting part.

If we’re like totally. If we’re not totally you see on the live show, it’s important that there are actually a lot of viewers and the people are showing up and fueling and like there are a lot of questions being asked in the chat right now, but we don’t always go into the questions. Whereas with the Loeki Di show, kind of the big gimmick on the show is that people that watch the show get to have their input projected on the screen.

So I think that’s a Very big difference. And then when you look at, from a podcasting perspective, it’s not about getting the ratings absurd away, but rather putting on evergreen quality content that when people listen to it in 10 years’ time, it still makes sense. And still like, Hey, this is valuable, are relatable.

Like you just said. So that’s, that’s a very interesting thought process because if we want it to get like the views up and get a hundred or a couple of hundred viewers every week, we would have to dive deep into what’s currently hot, what’s popular, what’s hype at the moment and kind of build kind of the show, the Social Confoes around the topics that are hot.

And there is actually a show in Suriname that kind of dust that kind of always getting the guests in that are popular. This particular moment in time and the content is still evergreen, but the idea behind the podcast model where people listen to it afterwards is that it has to be evergreen. You have to be able to listen to it now and able to listen to it three years from now.

And then it doesn’t matter if the topic is hot at that particular moment is a topic which remains is interesting or inspiring through all the years. So I think that’s something that I didn’t take into consideration when we started this process.

Diego: [00:23:51] Yeah, no, it makes sense. And to add to that, I, I’m glad you mentioned the evergreen content.

It’s a content that can be really sent to irrespective of when you listen to it. And one thing I’d like to add from my previous point on why we get guests on is for, to be in the beginning, at least for me the, the points I mentioned before were like kind of tactics to grow, but the core reason was.  I genuinely want to talk to certain types of people in certain industries just to get insights.

That’s just a personal curiosity tap into that network that went to that knowledge. And this is a Gregory, said it a few weeks ago. That’s one of the potentials using this platform as a means to get a 30 minutes or an hour with such an individual and just talk  whatever on a certain topic on a certain expertise and, you know, just spark exchange, thoughts, exchange knowledge, and Carter common here on YouTube.

If you only use guests to reach a certain network it feels like you don’t believe in yourself enough to bring in an audience. And that is a very, very valid point.

Jean-luc: [00:24:58] It’s valid it’s definitely valid. Yeah,

Diego: [00:25:02] like I said, it is tactics that you can use, but it is not the core tactic. That we started off with. But we keep it in mind, keep it in our backlog, what the potential could be.

But the main reason to come back to your original question, why we even had guests, that is, what’s the reason that, you know, we generally are interested in some of these people’s stories and their backgrounds as well.

Jean-luc: [00:25:26] Yeah. And the guests thing, I guess the guest thing is really difficult though. I quickly want to, before we take on Neil’s question, I quickly want to jump into that because I do have something to celebrate not only a half a year of Social Confoes, but hive chat started a year ago. So for the past year, for the past 52 weeks, every week on Tuesday, we have a Twitter chat on a tweet chat on Twitter which is HIVE-related one of the blockchain.

So social blockchain, our social ecosystem, I should say, on blockchain technology. And basically what we did there. We have rotating hosts. So we try to find a different host every week. And I mean, I’m getting help from Tracy was actually in, I think a New York She’s in us and basically she gets, most of the guests afford to afford a weekly session.

It’s a hassle it’s. I mean, it’s a full-time job. It’s like you have to put somebody out there. That’s willing to stalk people and talk to people and convince people to get on the show and to be a host. And it’s, I mean, that’s why I think we, for me personally, let’s speak for me personally. I try to hack the system.

I tried to hack the system by saying like, Hey, we’re going digital. Now we don’t have to drive to a studio. We don’t have to do all the preparation work that usually goes into a normal studio production. And I can do this from my own home. And I can sit here on the couch, and I can run a show every Tuesday night or every Thursday night.

And at a certain point, you come to a point that even though you. Simplified and hacked one part of off of what you’re doing. You can simplify everything because if you want to do this correctly, if you’re at a certain point in your, your budget is going to go up because you don’t want somebody who is a director, somebody, something we haven’t done today is like switch around and, and put myself in the forefront when I’m talking like this, or even going full screen, lag that or bringing it back like this.

It’s, it’s something that somebody specifically has to be in control and has to have the controls and kind of doing the direction of, of, of, of the video when your life and when your guests, you don’t really have time. I mean, you do. Sometimes we do it when we have a guest in and we pumped a guest up to make it bigger because we can take another out of it and put that on YouTube as a separate video.

But. The scripting the camera, the, the post audio. I mean, these are all things that most of the things you are doing behind the scenes to get it in for the podcast, but it’s also something that we have to do for distribution. And then you have to decide, and this is a fairy confronting thing, which I didn’t think about enough when we started I have to make a ferry effective decisions, or really this idea like, okay, I have to take away my spirit diamond focus on making this a success.

So the, one of the things that I really have to do is at lunch instead of going to YouTube. And when I eat alone watch YouTube videos when I’m actually having my lunch. Instead of that, I’m actually having to look at my own content. To find the best pieces out of that content to kind of make micro content out of it and to redistribute it as well.

And that’s very, it’s very, yeah, it’s very difficult. It’s,

Diego: [00:28:58] it’s a lot, it’s a lot of things that you get kind of juggle, it’s deciding, combining and compressing it in that it’s insightful within the least amount of words or least amount of minutes for it to be valuable in this fast paced consumption world.

Yeah. And it’s challenging. And then you go like one-hour long format going through that. And I I’ve kind of found a hack on that, but yeah, so I, I am preempting now in the postproduction for written format as well. You guys are, we’ll see it or not, who knows, but I’m, I’m doing prep work. For those types of things behind the scene, that’s within the process of the production already.

So that doesn’t take extra time. But when I go back, I can easily see how this part is for that part. So that’s thing, there are things I’m taking into consideration. Yeah. But yeah, to go to Anil’s question real quick here from LinkedIn, what about the full audio platforms like clubhouse? You mentioned Twitter spaces right before we went on.

What’s our take on that. So it depends, it really depends on who you are, where we are and what you want to achieve with it. I literally, since the clubhouse was an Android I literally open it once. Carter invited me. I had one chat with him in a private room, and that was the only time I opened it and I never opened it again.

There was a hype in January, February around clubhouse on, you know, this exclusivity and you had a lot first movers, big people who are on the platform, but also the first movers people were actually leveraging that to get into this inner circle of people and they they’ve got the good value out of it.

But now as the space becomes more open and Rhodes, you know, open it up, there’s an influx of new users and it gets muddled really quickly to find these communities. Those back then have found, you know, certain shell circles already established, you know, speakers, hosts, weekly topics, et cetera. Yeah. to weed out all that the quality within that gets hard again.

And my second take on platforms like Clubhouse, they’re not on demand their live so you need to allocate a certain amount of hours or time if you want to listen into a certain person or whatever. So basically you’re going back to radio, but only in a more communal setting. yeah, so that’s what you’ve got to take into consideration.

If you’re one of those that, you know, can go daily, weekly on it and find those channels have already made relationships with certain people then great. If you can make it work for you to do it. But I think personally for me it’s not my style. It’s not something I, you know, invest a lot of time in.

That I’d see a net positive return in the short to long-term unless I really, really invest a lot of time on the same thing goes for spaces, but yeah, space is coming up. I don’t know what that will mean for his club house. I don’t even know if possible, we’ll get acquired, but there’s a lot of things playing there. That’s kind of my quick 2 cents on that.

Jean-luc: [00:32:15] You’ve basically touched all the points already, Diego. So for me, the biggest discussion I had on Clubhouse with people that were like, why aren’t you on clubhouse you should be on club. I was like, I’m already pressed for time. So, so it’s got to be this great opportunity for me as a creator.

Are it’s going to be something that I don’t have yet as a consumer? So basically, I always think of platforms to decide it. How much time are we going to use to consume how much time am I going to use to actually create on, on Facebook? And, and this is hard because also one of the things that I’ve I felt, and I do feel it is I want to engage more, but engaging the X, a lot of that really, really a lot of time.

For instance many years, I think for three straight years in October, I deleted all my WhatsApp groups. I just decided I’m not gonna do any more WhatsApp groups until the new year, because I really have to focus and WhatsApp kind of it’s a time sink. Like, especially when you get into discussions or fun discussions with friends and relatives, it’s, it’s just displeased where you, you lose two hours on WhatsApp without even realizing where that time went.

So I really don’t need another space where I consume content and I’m actually a user. So that’s why clubhouse was out for me. And then the idea was like, but you get to meet all these people. And I was like, yeah, but I can’t find those people already. I know where all the free content of the world is.

There is no content. That I need that I have to pay for all the content that I want to find on any topic. Even the high, high quality content is already available for free. Okay. Yes. In some cases I have to listen to a webinar for an hour, half an hour, and then the second half of the hour of the webinars, basically a sales pitch and I can drop off, but then I already have the information that it,

Diego: [00:34:11] yeah.

And that’s the fine line where it comes to, you know, consuming and transforming it into execution that you actually take in and use.

Jean-luc: [00:34:19] And I want you to go to the creator side of it. It’s like, you’re going to have to learn a new platform. You’re going to have to learn how it works. Like for instance, TikTok.

The difference between a clubhouse. And Tik Tik TOK from a, from a creator’s perspective on house. All these people are like, well, this is Edo, easy it’s audio. I can make audio. I can kind of start my own room. I can be a thought leader. And then you have kind of this big competition on where the attention is going.

Pseudo thought leaders. Thanks for correcting me, but I want you to look at TikTok the reason tick-tock works so great. Is there are a lot of people on tick-tock who just want to consume content. There are a lot of people on tick-tock that don’t have the idea, like they have to create videos, are they do, but they’re just in the early phase.

So they don’t really succeed in doing it, which makes them consumers again. So the, the content creation consumer ratio in tick-tock is awesome. So if you would just put out a TikTok every day for a year, and you’re already kind of a creator who kind of knows how to create concepts. I mean, it’s so easy to grow.

I mean, even the caddied lame, like who kind of blew up on Tik TOK with the funny saying like, you can do it this easy and he’s kind of mocking like these fake do it yourself things. I mean just how easy he grew on thick dog, because it’s, it’s fun. It’s plain and simple. And I’ve mentioned this in a talk a couple of weeks ago as well in the end, we’re on social media to escape from our regular life.

So if content, this is not something that you find relaxing and that you’re like, okay, I finally have some times for myself and you’re going and you’re watching or listening to content. And the content is kind of not provoking. You are not inspiring. You are not funny or not engaging or entertaining people.

So an out. Yeah, therefore they’re still year for their fun. So I think that also plays an important role. And that’s also a difference again, between doing a life, which is Clubhouse, it’s a life thing compared to like searching for something when you’re in need of that kind of content.

Diego: [00:36:34] I guess that brings us to our next section and I want to quickly talk about, you know, since we started basically since last year, but since we started this year, seriously, the state of podcasting here locally in Suriname.

How do you see the space now? Has it changed at all? Do you see any, you know, new creators? But guests they’re on the rise. I’ve seen some activity here and there, but I’m curious to what your observations have been on the current state of the podcast in general here.

Jean-luc: [00:37:07] It’s, it’s difficult. I really don’t understand because I know quite a lot of creators Surinamese creators, and there are a couple of creators who have already big, like huge audiences.

We’re talking about tens of thousands of followers, and I’m pretty sure if they start a podcast, it’s going to blow up. It’s just really, really going to blow up. But for some reason, It’s not, we’re not used to the audio format kind of yet. We’re not used to this kind of vibe. I mean, the, the, the space that it’s coming from is traditional media production houses jumping in, and the newer forms of, of the tv shows

that’s kind of the direction where we’re getting the most influx in, but like people that have actually a big following, I love the fact. I really love the fact that  is starting the Dave podcast. I think that’s gonna be highly fairy, very successful, which is interesting because he already had like a television show with kind of a similar vibe to it.

And the thing that strengthens this kind of type of concept that we use is this show or Social Confoes this kind of COVID, COVID safe. There’s not really that much, that can go wrong. The only thing knock on wood, the only thing that can really go wrong is the internet connection. Aside from that there are no logistical issues.

Diego: [00:38:33] Yeah. We just flip on a switch,

Jean-luc: [00:38:35] we’ll flip on a switch and we go and then you get to the post production, like, and that’s why I do the lives as well, because if it’s life, the contents there, if it’s good, it’s good. If it sucks, it sucks. It’s terrible. Nobody watches again.

If it’s good, you can still crop out the best parts and reuse that content even years later. and it’s also the negative experiences I had with studio shows. So in 2020, I had two big production studio productions, even though they weren’t necessarily in the studio, two television productions that I spent at least half a day on that never. that kind of goes to waste

So that, that kind of hurts. So like there’s even a, there is a, a Surinamese me stock show, no joke. There’s a serenity stock show that I was going to be part of. I was going to be a co-host of that show. And in the end, something went wrong with a communication towards me.

And at a certain point, they called me up and they were like, we’re shooting tomorrow. Can you be here? And I was like, listen, I’m in Miami, I’m at the airport. I asked you four weeks to contact me. You didn’t, I’m not going to be there tomorrow. I’m going to be with my family. And basically they decided then to find another co-host and that showed they, they taped a complete season of that show with guests, with everyone.

The show never aired online. It never aired. And that’s this really kind of it’s, it’s kind of this insane thing.

Diego: [00:40:07] I want to make a quick distinction here. So if we’re talking about show and podcast that there we’re, we’re using it interchangeably now in a sense, but there is a distinction. And for me, that is a podcast is just a means of distribution.

That is the core definition for me as a podcast, it can be a show. It can be a story, whatever. It’s just a means of distribution. And that’s one thing I wanted to make clear mentioning this and. Yes, as you mentioned there, there’s this big people with a big following and I don’t know Dave quite well, but I’ve seen some feeds go by and they’ve got a whole set, the whole studio with video lights recording, and that’s a lot of logistics and production behind it.

But in the end I won’t call it a podcast. If it doesn’t get distributed the way a podcast is distributed.

Jean-luc: [00:41:07] No, but here’s the thing with people like Dave, I’m not worried about the distribution because he has already has such a big following that he’s going to get the amount of people that he needs to get to view his content.

So that’s the funny thing that he doesn’t and the topics that he takes out. He also takes people that have a very clear opinion. So it’s going to be thought provoking. That’s the kind of person he is. Dave. I know Dave is somebody who’s very he’s very direct. He tells you the way it is.  he’s very street smart so we can tell you things that people Like in, in Dutch, you would say, you can , he can, he can move the needle and find the information that he needs to make it interesting. So I’m not worried for distribution for, for, for someone like Dave in the end, it’s going to be like how long do you want to do this? Is this something that you want to continually and gradually continue to do?

And, and I mean, when we started with Social Confoes, there are other podcasts going, and I’m not sure where those podcasts are anymore, just because the logistics off. And that’s the difference. You’re, you’re making the distinction between a podcast and a show, but just the logistics of getting the content out and getting content out on a regular basis.

It’s kind of like a YouTube where like a flogger, like people don’t really understand how hard it’s to put out a hundred vlogs like. I don’t know the exact statistics, but I’m pretty sure 90% of people that started vlogging never reach their a hundred vlogs

Diego: [00:42:40] and I think it’s with anything with creation, it’s hard to stay consistent be at, you know, at the video production, vlogs written content, spoken content, audio content.

Yeah. It falls in the same category of creation. But yeah, I, I’m glad we mentioned that, you know, that the distinction between shows and podcasts, and I do hope that the, you know Dave podcast kicks off, cause this is, this will only be better for the whole space as a, as a medium, as a platform. If more people are starting to adopt this format on Spotify, Spotify has been here since March.

If more people are becoming aware of this type of format is on Spotify the better for us, the more it helps us reach more people as well. And then, and then I want to talk about the, the, the next thing surrounding. A specific, specific state of podcasting. We deliberately decided to go in, you know, to do it in English.

And I’m happy that, you know, Rachim who had a, yet on in episode two, I think his show is predominantly in Dutch and he there’s some overlaps in the topics we covered, but I’m glad he, he clearly defined it. You know, he’s gonna do it in depth. His website is in Dutch. All the content is in Dutch.

There’s a clear focus on his audience there, and I’m happy for that as well. But then here comes the question when you start to mix it up that, that shows me that you’re, you don’t have a clear direction that you want to go with it. So thoughts on that, on the language barrier and also mixing it up.

Jean-luc: [00:44:18] and this is a very difficult part for me because. Like at a, at a certain point, the reason why you go into English is to reach a broader audience, but also to get your guests a little bit broader, like one of the problems that we have with De Loeki Di show is that we’re a Dutch show. So we now have had some bilingual episodes where we got guests in.

So we got Karen Gorski and from Canada was kind of he was, he’s kind of doing his, his focuses on the national football team of Canada. We got somebody journalists from Bermuda. And so those were kind of episodes that were in English It’s kind of weird to have like a podcast or an online show where you kind of are bilingual and you go from Dutch to English and back to Dutch.

I mean, if you’re a big TV show, like in the Netherlands, out of the  and then you have somebody like Ed Sheeran in a house. Yes, of course you’re going to, and then even then they go Dutch. And then when the big guest shows up, it’s at cheer on our Beyonce, then you go in today to English. It’s still weird.

It’s still very weird. So we decided to go into English because it gives us a broader scope. The opportunities are much bigger, but then again, it gets hard for the local community to stand behind the production just because they speak English wide while doesn’t mean that they like to consume content that’s in English.

They just don’t it’s okay. You’re going to have to accept it. And I experienced this with YouTube. I started flogging in Dutch and I was getting a couple of hundred fuse per vlog and then I switched to English and it completely dropped off. And I still have it. If I upload content that’s in Dutch, it gets views much easier than I, if I upload content in English.

But when I was uploading vlogs in English, I was actually getting views a lot of views from south east Asia, which I’m you, I’m losing now again. So basically this is kind of what, and then you get to the question. Okay. But what’s important to you. Like who do you want your audience to be? And that’s why I’m at a certain point in saying like, I’m going to have to mix it up and look at the different channels and decide per channel what I really want because the audiences are different and, and here’s the thing also, what kind of.

Keeps me off the international audience a bit. And of course, this is this perception, but it’s the idea that if you really brand an international brand and people want to look you up, you have to have your funnel ready. It’s like this psychological, mental thing that if you’re going like international, you have to have a proper website, but everything has to work, which is complete bogus, of course, because it doesn’t really matter, but you do have to keep the engagement going.

for me, at least now the biggest problem is keeping that engagement of spending two hours a day on social media, just engaging is something that I feel we should do more. And when I say we should have more, I’m directly looking myself in the mirror.

Diego: [00:47:31] and I think reflecting back to what we said earlier on, you know, when we get the international guests on it, doesn’t really reach the local audience in the same way that when we have a local guest on, as, as Surinamese background guests on.

So I definitely see that disconnect there in the language, but then again, it isn’t the intent I was going with either. I don’t need, for me personally, I don’t intend to reach a broader audience, but a more focused audience who is willing to take that international step. And it was really there. So lower, lower numbers, but I think more quality.

Jean-luc: [00:48:15] But there are other avenues and the other avenues are much more sexy. So that’s also something to take into consideration. Sometimes there are different ways to Rome and then people look at the roads and HEY that road is paved in gold, or it looks, at least looks shiny. Let’s take that road and sorry, but podcasts aren’t that sexy.

And like, we, I mean, it’s kind of hard to understand when you have somebody who is the  and people don’t understand like what that position means. And like even our guests, our guests from last week when I, when I go to it and I read about Impekable and I like, whoa, this is really, this is really some high level stuff here.

It’s like, it doesn’t, it doesn’t resonate with, with our local audience because it’s, it’s so far out of, of um, the usual scope. Yeah. It’s it’s so far out of the, the, the frame of reference that for them like, okay, this it’s interesting and St intrepreneur he listed the states, but there is no connection to the bay area or what they are doing.

And that’s of course there are a couple of people that are listening in and watching now to do know difference, but then we just have to say for herself, okay. We don’t mind if it’s just 10 people. That is the core audience that we’re doing this for and for now, I think that’s, that’s also enough. But then the question becomes where’s the return of investment and other return of investment for us with return of investment for the listener.

So it’s the guests. Yeah for the guests and the listener. So I think that’s something that we should, when we think a little bit of strategy is like how we can improve that. Because most people that listen to this podcast long enough know that we kind of started off for selfish reasons. And for me the selfish reason was having content.

So now the content there, but I’m not actually distributed a content. I’m like, these are like no that’s of information and I’m not properly spending the time to, to quote it in a way that it becomes interesting and distributed for everybody that people can really see what the show is about. So our podcast is about, sorry,

Diego: [00:50:32] Quickly comment from Motev and YouTube. As Jean-luc said, we have a big influencer with no audio content that’s podcasts, but if we, they see the value of a DVX float, especially now we have Spotify and see, I want one-on-one correlate that with it will actually explode as look, just set the format.

Isn’t really sexy. It is kind of non-existent. Yeah. I’m not sure how that will correlate because you may be big on social Instagram for example, but that’s a different type of audience. Again, that’s a different age group. There’s a different interest. So translating that exact audience to another medium, it doesn’t translate one to one.

Even translating a podcast, a newsletter doesn’t. I’ve actually heard this from, you know bigger influence. So individuals who have newsletters who started a podcast, there is one,

Jean-luc: [00:51:35] but the audience is different. The artist is different. So, so let’s, let’s, let’s, let’s go to the audience that does go across media that the really loyal audience.

So before we discuss Social, Confoes the, the, the concept that I had in mind, there was interfering like influencer share to these influencers. So let’s say for instance, that I would interview Fiewie are Kaylee Marcel bread-and-butter or Cyrus are Welles or are you are  like these guys who have like tens of thousands of followers.

And I would reach a hundred, a couple of hundred views every episode. So that’s something to take in consideration, but then dig into consideration if they would do it. Say for instance, we would say like who has like 40k subscribers on YouTube he would say like, Hey, I’m just gonna, people want more content from me?

Like, how do you do where’s do it. And in the U S people that want more content from me, I’m just going to do that. I’m just going to create a content and I’m going to just called friends of mine, fellow creators. And we’re just gonna talk for an hour. Or I put that on Spotify. And all of a sudden, he, they will realize that they would get a a thousand views from it.

And all of a sudden it’s going to be this monetization gained between am I actually getting more from than 50k views on you to compare to a thousand streams? Spotify, which is actually providing more revenue. And once that comes into play, then all of a sudden it does become interesting for them, but there’s no push currently there, there is just, it’s no push

the only, the only people for, with a push is really down. Or of course, music artists, because music artists have realized that if you got enough streams, you can actually earn quite a lot. So I think that’s also the leverage. Like for instance, if you look at Jake Paul our Logan, Paul, sorry with, with his podcast and David Doberik who stopped because of the whole situation that he went through.

But these are like people with millions of followers and the podcast reaches the same amount of people. So are maybe a 10th of those people. So still, if you have a Surinamese creator was already reaching tens of thousands. of fans during his regular or her regular channels, you can imagine that if they would go for a podcast, they will still,

Diego: [00:54:03] I, I would want to see it actually happen.

I really would. And as you said, maybe we should want to get one of them. Who’s more inclined and give them that push, not sure how that’s going to work.

Jean-luc: [00:54:16] Yeah. We never got through the problem that most of them don’t want to speak English. We can get skitzo. We can definitely get skitzo on and as a guest.

And but he’s not one of those people that will, he’s also very conscious about the content he puts out. So it, I think that’s the thing as well. Do you want to go fire all? Do you want to have a lot of fuels? Do you want to have a lot of engagement? Do you want to have a lot of hype are you approach it more from, and this is where you get old.

That people are like, yeah. But is this old style of, creating content? Is this informative, slow based, whereas what people want is fast, spaced, drama, entertainment. So that’s, that’s a big problem that, that you’re facing. You’re gonna have to decide which moves, which, and when you go, both are good, but when you go for it, you have to stick to it and not do the thing that I’m doing, like going all over the place with tens of thousands

Diego: [00:55:12] and definitely get that. And that the hype train isn’t necessarily the direction I would want to go in particular. But if it aligns then yeah. Seize that opportunity, definitely where if I have to drop parallel and how to, you know, to the investing world, it’s, it’s a long game. And if you talk about the compounding effect, especially if you’re talking evergreen content and the content being online, a place online dedicated website, dedicated, you know apple podcast channel, it gets compounded over time and you’ll slowly rank up within the algorithm.

And that content you can always repurpose again. So that’s the approach I’m seeing to go. If there is a spare viral moment in it, great. It just helps, you know, like how the markets move. I’m using too many market and analogies.

Jean-luc: [00:56:08] Yeah, there’s that? But I do have one question though. It’s not always the case. I’m not sure the algorithm is set up.

Diego: [00:56:21] Yeah, I, I’m not even counting on Facebook at this point. I I’m, I’m mainly counting on organic search on Google and not necessarily even Google DuckDuckGo search engine. That’s an unfiltered I’m looking at YouTube being the second largest search engine. So that’s why it’s good that our content is on YouTube as well, but I want to take it a next step and actually not sure if we should make a second channel or what not.

I’ll go into that in a bit. But these snippets we’ve been making audio grams and, you know, short clips. And then this is you have the long format, but then you have the condensed format that you make into a shorter, more high quality, more insights per minute clip episodes shorts. And I think that, that there is a strength in the new beta version of YouTube shorts in, I see creators already, you know, they have the long form content, and they take like 45 seconds, 30 seconds

and put them in as short and it shows up and it really gets to people. If it gets to me, there’s definitely other people who it gets to. So use yourself as an individual, as a human, to see how it works on you. If it works on you, there’s bound to be someone else who it works on. So I think there’s potential to tap into there.

Jean-luc: [00:57:38] This is a snippet we’re going to cut out and put in and see if it works.

Diego: [00:57:42] Sure. But yeah, that was that. So caught me off guard there, but yeah We are kind of now distributing through our own personal brands. And this has come up a few times to why we don’t have a dedicated Facebook page where you don’t have an Instagram page.

We just have the website and the distribution channels on Spotify, apple podcasts, yada, yada, yada. So my stance on that has not changed, but have you any new perspective or observations on that?

Jean-luc: [00:58:12] Wow. So, so it’s, it’s putting me in an awkward position saying that your stance as a teacher, because now if I say my stance as a teacher, it just feels like I’m repeating what you’re saying.

So I’ve just thought at, at a certain point I was no, no. At a certain point I had this, I had this discussion with myself three weeks ago, whether or not both the Social Confoes and the Loeki Di show should have separate channels, like branded challenge channels, just for them. In the end is you just got to be more work and there is a reason why we’re not distributing the content enough as much as we should.

So I want to go about that first. Like there are a couple of things that I really want to do, and I want to make this commitment because with Tyler, we already made the commitment that I’m going to do for chilled drinks, and I’m going to reconnect with people and I’m having my

Diego: [00:59:13] first, have you started yet?

Have you started,

Jean-luc: [00:59:17] I’m just about to say, so moral morning, I have a virtual drink. Yeah. There, the fall follow there, but he’s the one who started for chilled drinks here at, at least at a very

Diego: [00:59:30] shout out to Sandrina

Jean-luc: [00:59:31] great concept. So a shout out to the Sandrina but she’s kind of, she’s kind of the godmother of the virtual drinks here. And she is one who consistently started having virtual drinks with everybody. And so tomorrow I’ve virtual drink with her, which will be my first virtual drink. And from there, that’s where I hope to get inspiration from to make it something that continuously happens. So we do have to do that now, what I really want.

Strongly do is, I’ve just decided to go on Gaze TV. Now gay stuffy is one, one of many, so many blockchain sides there currently is to upload content. And I’m what I’m just going to do is spell it out

Diego: [01:00:13] for me.

Jean-luc: [01:00:14] Gaze G a Z E dot TV gaze like gazing. Yeah. And they approached me a while back and even for like a dear saying like, Hey, your content would work for, for gaze

and I decided to give it a go. But I’m gonna look for all video platforms, like all independent video platforms where you can just earn by uploading except for steem of course.  and I’m just going to upload the show. Because I feel like they’re stairs one way, one place putting it all more and reaching new people.

And the other way is to actually taking all the best snippets and doing something with that as well. I’m going to make a commitment for 30 days from the 14th of July to the 14th of August. To do a daily. And it’s just, I mean, the problem is, is committing two hours a day for it. It sounds like.

Yeah, but that’s easy. You can do it in 15 minutes. No, you can’t. You really need to block out two hours a day and I’ve just decided I’ve pushed a couple of things back at my schedule. So I just decided that I will be able to make the time two hours a day to really start distributing content properly.

And I do feel that it will make a difference because when I started doing it, I started a month ago trying to do it and went off for two weeks. I really already saw a growth happening and then it fell off again. And then you have to start building it all over again.

Diego: [01:01:44] And that’s the momentum we’re talking about, right? Once you miss that tick, it’s really hard to get that.

Jean-luc: [01:01:52] if you miss one day, it’s not a problem. If you miss two days, it’s gone. The momentum is. It really has gone. It’s called the sign. A lot of people refer to it as the Seinfeld. Yeah. James clear. I mean, you’ve read the books. I, I I’ve read the Arctic the online articles.

So that’s the commitment. Let me before, before we step over to like, okay. Yeah, we have to create separate channels for Social Confoes. I first want to just start promoting the hell out of it and see where we were restraint and also what, something that I did consider, but I don’t know how much of a technical issue that is for you.

Getting it separate on Spotify. That was something that I was considering.

Diego: [01:02:33] What do you mean with separate on Spotify?

Jean-luc: [01:02:36] Like right now this, the, so the Confoes is just one block on Spotify, right? Like all the Confoes are together as one, not separate for capital or creative or Social. So I was wondering how off, how much were dev would be to get it separate.

Diego: [01:02:53] I’m glad you’re asking. I’ve actually thought about this a lot in the, when we started on how to display it, the infrastructure is already there. It’s just a flip a switch. If we want to do that, I decided to funnel all of them to one channel first because you know, but now it’s mostly Social Confoes, but once the other start rolling I do think it will be smart to flip a switch and have a, you know, a distinction between the shows.

But the infrastructure is there. It’s something I’ve thought thoroughly about on how to do that and I’ve already put it in place.

Jean-luc: [01:03:31] Okay. Okay. That’s good to know. That’s really good to know. Okay. So that basically is it for me, I think we kind of discussed everything we needed to discuss. During this episode it was very informative and very useful information, I think.And I’m hoping that people that listen back to this find the same use for it as well.

Diego: [01:03:51] Yeah, definitely. So with that being said no fancy outro denied guys but no, no guests, so, but, but, but let, let’s make an effort. We’re going to plug ourselves now. So as you know, websites live now, sign up for the newsletter.

You can do that on the website, still in work in progress. And please, please, please. If you guys see something. That you’d like to give feedback on that you’d like to see better. Just send the feedback directly to one of us, either social channel works or just to the Confoes email that Casual at Confoes dot com, C A S U E L S C O N F O E S dot C O M.

So we just email it there. If you prefer to use email website is online and this episode will be on the, all the podcasting platform from Saturday apple podcast, Spotify, Google podcasts, yada yada, yada, you name them all. Or if you use a dedicated podcast, podcasting clear like me, Castbox or the RSS feed in there. And we also have a discord that hasn’t been used in a while, but joined the discord it’s, you know, help build a community. So there’s a plug.

Jean-luc: [01:05:05] They will. I want to challenge you. I want to challenge you tomorrow, put out a post on your preferred social media channel to say it as you’re going to do an ask me anything next week and people can send in questions to you.

And when you’ve done it over there, you do it with your friends through WhatsApp as well. And we tried to get about 20 questions in for next week.

Diego: [01:05:32] So we’re going to do an AMA episode

Jean-luc: [01:05:36] two, actually, too.

Diego: [01:05:39] I’m writing it down now. Elaborate on that. What’s the intent with that?

Jean-luc: [01:05:47] That is getting a little bit background story behind the.

And have a little bit about each other because we’ve worked together with each other in different different projects for years now, but I think it’s also good to like, and I’m using this with this, discussed this before the show, you want to keep the numbers going. And I more like an episodic, periodic person who wants to like innovate and iterate.

But I completely agrees with keeping the numbers writing they’ll get me wrong, but I do want to, for the second part of 2021, open up with a little bit more about people getting to know us before we go back into the guests and also for the people that already kind of know us that have questions that they’ve always wanted to ask that they have the opportunity to ask them.


Diego: [01:06:38] I’m an open book guys kind of alright, challenge and accepted.

 All right. I think that’s a good place to leave it at. So we will see you next week for the ask me anything to do and then share with your friends. Yeah.

Jean-luc: [01:06:55] Yes. And Anna and I thank you for joining in and you should ask questions, some questions to Diego as well.

So thank you for watching. Thank you for listening. If you’re tuning into this episode afterwards. Thank you as well. This was a Social Confoes for today. We’ll be back with a brand new Social Confoes next week, Tuesday at 9:00 PM. Thank you.

And bye-bye.